Louis (Intro)
Hey there. I’m your host, Louis, and you’re listening to Kakou Talk- a podcast about accessibility, community and all things in between, brought to you by Kakou Technologies. You’re listening to episode four, with JJ Talat. I hope you enjoy.
Louis
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Kakou Talk. I’ve got to tell you, I’m very excited to be back doing this. It’s been a very long time without being able to do an episode. But I’m very happy today to introduce my guest, from Junction Arts, JJ.
JJ
Hi! Hi, Louis.
Louis
Hello! How are you? So, obviously, I think the best place to start is to ask you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do at Junction Arts.
JJ
Yeah, of course. So my name is JJ and I’m the Marketing and Communications Coordinator at Junction Arts. I’ve been with Junction Arts for nearly six years now, so I know the charity quite well. And Junction Arts are, for anyone who doesn’t know, are a charity based in Chesterfield, who basically uses community arts as a catalyst and a tool to improve wellbeing and inspire change within our local communities. So we’re based in Chesterfield. But we work all across the Bolsover district and northeast Derbyshire. And recently, we have worked regionally on a big project as well. And we have done international projects in the past too, so we’ve got quite a big reach. And we’re aiming to do more international and bigger projects as time goes by. So that’s quite exciting. We’re in a really exciting place at the moment.
Louis
Wow, yeah. Because we’ve actually been- I’ve been at Kakou for just over a year now, and I know, just in our history of projects and work and collaborations that we’ve worked with Junction Arts quite a lot over the past, haven’t we?
JJ
Yeah, I think you’ve done some of the Tapton Lock festivals, I think there.
Louis
Yes.
JJ
And, obviously, we’ve got Ann who is a member of staff with you, she’s one of our brilliant Board of Trustees. So we’ve always got magical input to help guide us there as well.
Louis
So do I!
JJ
Yeah, she’s great.
Louis
So I guess, as you’re talking about kind of art as a tool for wellness and community outreach, which is the foundational aspect of what you do and over the years, it’s become a massive part of what we do at Kakou in terms of our social outreach, and I feel like our goals have been so aligned that it’s not a surprise that we have this relationship and Ann is so supportive of what you do and has such a large input and vice versa. So, I suppose, what I want to ask you, like, the kind of first question to open up with is- I understand that Junction Arts, a lot of what they do involves either directly setting up or aiding in the creation of online workshops and community projects. And something I want to ask you, obviously, that I think the most like- I don’t want to- (Laughs) in every episode of this podcast, I’ve kind of, I’ve somehow managed to crowbar the pandemic in, and it’s not for, you know, it’s not because I like saying it, but obviously, for everyone in social outreach, and for everyone working in accessibility, it’s been such an obstacle. And I suppose what I want to ask you is, how does your typical work of you know, workshops and community projects, how has that sort of adapted around the pandemic? And the kind of the massive reliance on things like zoom and video calls? Like, do you think that’s changed? Was it an easy transition, was it difficult?
JJ
Yeah, I think- I think you’re right to bring it up, actually. Because, although, you know, we’re probably sick of hearing about it, there were some really good learning curves that did come out of it. And I think, more importantly, than it being just a learning curve, it gives, definitely Junction Arts the opportunity to be brave and to take some risks, you know, we were really thrown in the deep end. So without that time, we wouldn’t have maybe developed how we did. So it is a really important moment for Junction Arts really, and how we will go about delivery in the future. So yeah, obviously, as you said, we did a lot of our work online, used a lot of zoom sessions to deliver our workshops and to hold our meetings and stuff like that. And we also put some of our projects online, which we have done in the past to various degrees, but never really delivered a full workshop online, I don’t think.
Louis
Yeah.
JJ
So that was a really big lesson for all of us, I think. Definitely for the project coordinators. They had to think about a new way of delivery, and how people would still engage with the project through screen which is really hard to do. And sometimes it wasn’t even through a video workshop. It would be just putting PDFs online and asking people to enjoy the workshops at their own leisure, at their own comfort, which again, I think was really important during the time where everyone was feeling quite stressed, and, you know.
Louis
Yeah, of course.
JJ
It was hard to get people together all the time to do to do things, I think giving people the option to take the time to choose when to engage was really important as well. And it’s also a really good way of- how can I put this- like, recycling a project, you know, when you’ve created that workshop, or that project, and you’ve got it digitally, it’s much easier then to keep using it and to give it to different people to have a go at. So that’s actually a really good thing that’s come out of it, because people can access projects, again and again and again, without having the need of a project coordinator there all the time. But we do, you know, there are projects online still from COVID, where we’ve asked people if you are taking part to, you know, let us know, send an email to the Project Coordinator if you need any help and stuff like that. So, yeah, I think it was- although it was a crazy time, for us, I think it was very exciting. It’s definitely changed the way that we work, we do a lot of meetings still on Zoom. It saves a lot of time, obviously, being able to just jump onto a meeting rather than travel, which has been really good, as time is quite precious when you work for a charity. So that’s, that’s really good for us. But there was definitely an element of delivery that you can’t get the quality through the screen, sometimes. Sometimes you need to be in that space, and to feel the vibe and to understand what’s going on in a room. So you know, there’s a time and a place for it. And I think we know that now, we’ve definitely had a wider range of people access the online, kind of, stuff. And we can see that as a positive thing going forward and ways to develop our projects in the future.
Louis
Yeah, a real running theme I’ve seen with everyone I’ve spoken to on this podcast so far and have worked in the arts and in community outreach, the real common thing I’m hearing when we talk about how you’ve changed in the pandemic is this kind of forced evolution, this, like, trial by fire this, sort of- when you’re online, you don’t have the kind of atmosphere of being in person, the ways in which they see the kind of weaknesses and strengths in their presentations and their projects and their workshops kind of come through. It’s almost as if, you know, all of a sudden, you’re on a completely new platform, and you’re having to consider what you’re doing in a way that you’ve never really had to before. And I think this is something that a lot of guys have enjoyed, I guess because of the challenge of like, ‘okay, well, how can I make this more engaging?’, and we kind of get like emerging communities and repeat visitors and repeat attendees. And I think it’s interesting what you said about the workshops being- a side effect of it being online and having those resources kind of, you know, in PDFs and images that are shared, is that it kind of gives the work a sense of permanence and, like, you’re able to revisit and able to do it again, without necessarily having to be coordinated around a coordinator.
JJ
Yeah, definitely. I think one thing I would like to add is that, obviously, whilst we were doing this, so- Junction Arts do deliver in some very deprived areas. And I think one of the, kind of, like, things we were always thinking in the back of our mind is although we do see the online world is very accessible, there might be people that don’t have access to technology, to then join in with them particular online workshops and stuff. So although it was the kind of the best we could do at the time, and we know, we did say if anyone wants to projects delivered to them, we can print out things and we can you know, go deliver and stuff like that. There are people that definitely wouldn’t have had access to the internet 24/7 and couldn’t maybe utilise the workshops online, even though they were there for them. And that always like, sat with me throughout the pandemic. And I think even though going forward, we will do a lot of online stuff, I don’t think everything could ever go 100% online for that reason as well.
Louis
Yeah, no, I agree. I think this is also- I’ve also gotten the sense from the people I’ve spoken to and just in our own work when we’re thinking about how to make things work for people in those areas where the internet and computers and smartphones is just not… there’s not an ability to engage with it. You know what I mean? Because of their circumstances and wherever they may be. It’s this real sense of like, it’s working for now. But like, they know that like, there’s still more to be done. They know there’s still people who aren’t able to engage with this. And I think that’s led to like a very interesting sort of like, a sense of problem solving, like you were saying about Junction Arts actually delivering packages and stuff throughout the pandemic as best they could- I didn’t actually know you’d done that. I think that’s very interesting.
JJ
Well, there were some kind of instances where we’d received letters that were sent to us to share with the people living in a care home. Obviously, people in care homes during COVID, are extremely isolated. So we’d print them out so that they could, you know, share it amongst the residents there, or the people that run the centre or run the care home would print it out so everyone could have access to it. Because obviously, not everyone who lived in the care home would have had a smartphone or a computer, and stuff like that. So it’s just, you know, thinking almost in layers of people and the access they have to technology, and ‘how can we still make the things going on online accessible to the people that don’t have that with them all the time?’ So yeah, it was a good. Like I say, I think it’s an amazing learning curve that we took. And I don’t think that anything we did was particularly bad or wrong. I think we can only learn from it going forward.
Louis
Of course. Yeah, I think I don’t think it’s fair to- in these circumstances- I understand that, like, there’s a level of, ‘oh, no, you know, there’s these people that we know, we could be doing more we know, we’re missing this sort of demographic having to do online’. But I think that like, ultimately, like you said, and like we’ve been saying, it is like a real learning curve. And I’m sure that like everyone who was involved in community outreach, and community art projects have, like, really adapted and picked up like a lot of new strings to their bow in regards to online. But I think a massively, at least, you know, we’re very concerned about this at Kakou, because we do a lot of accessibility. And while you know, we do engage a lot in our technology to help disabled people, or projects to make areas and venues and businesses more welcoming to people with access needs. A large part of accessibility that I think people forget about is the opportunities provided to people from certain demographics and areas and in certain financial situations and I think that as interesting a learning experience as it’s been to kind of make things work around the online world nowadays, I think that there is still like, we have to be so careful not to forget the people who don’t have access to the internet who don’t have laptops or smartphones to do these things online. Because, yeah, it’s always been a worry of my own that like these people, as we move into things being purely digital, even after kind of like the worst of lockdowns and the pandemic, it does just feel like ‘we can’t forget about these people’. You know what I mean?
JJ
Absolutely.
Louis
We can’t forget about the ways in which people can’t engage with these new methods.
JJ
Yeah, absolutely.
Louis
So you’ve touched on in passing there when you were just speaking about how Junction Arts really goes out of their way to kind of reach into, like, the communities that are more isolated from the technological side of doing things online. And people who, you know, in care homes, you maybe don’t have the means or the understanding or the knowledge of technology to do these workshops online. And I think that speaks to a real kind of foundational belief that I know junction Arts has, and I know that we have at Kakou that I’m very passionate about, about art being so enriching to communities like, regardless of their area, or their knowledge of technology and their ability to engage with certain types of workshop. I was wondering if you could talk to me a little bit about the ways in which you believe art can enrich and exist within communities?
JJ
Yeah, of course. So, obviously, art is the reason why we exist in the in these communities. You know, we believe that it’s a catalyst for change, and for, you know, positive impact within these communities. And I think it has so many benefits, and it can do so many wonderful things on not a very scary level, you know, it’s really accessible, and anyone can take part and join in, and you can amend what we do for so many different people, different types of people, groups and communities. So it offers many benefits, such as, you know, the obvious one is a creative outlet, it gives people the chance to express themselves, to engage in a creative activity and have access to be creative-
Louis
Of course.
JJ
-in a safe space, which, you know, not everyone has been brought up to enjoy the arts like that.
Louis
Yeah.
JJ
And not everyone has access to it. So it can give people the chance to explore their emotions, to understand what’s going on around them. You know, we do a lot of historical and heritage projects, which really does refer back to place and where people are in their surroundings. And I think it’s really important for people to learn about their heritage and where they’re from and the areas for multiple reasons, you know, obviously educational, but also as a point of reflection, a thought-provoking tool almost, to get people to think about history. Not only in their area, but you know, the wider history, the impact of people and perhaps why they are in the situation that they’re in now. And just to give them that kind of time to reflect, and then maybe think about the future, too, you know, I think there’s always kind of that quote in the back of my mind, if you can’t… what is it, “if you can’t imagine the change, you can’t be the change.”
Louis
Yes.
JJ
So you know, we give people multiple opportunities to really just explore, and to kind of delve into what could be, through simple tools like art, to create something new to give them the kind of confidence and I guess, the soft skills when people are doing these activities to problem solve, to interact with other people and to go a little bit out of their comfort zone sometimes and push their potential. I think that’s a really important aspect of the arts too and having that participation element within the arts can really bring that out of people.
Louis
Yeah, I was actually speaking to an artist who I know has worked Junction Arts in the past, Lucie Maycock.
JJ
Oh yeah?
Louis
She was saying and she was talking to me about something I really agree with, and I think that we kind of strive to do at Kakou and I know you do it at Junction Arts, too. But for a lot of people that like you reach out to in these communities for these workshops, and these projects, like… these people who have never really been given the opportunity to explore the arts, you know, it’s never really been shown to them as something that’s worthwhile, or like, you can make a career out of or it’s even just, like, you know, a fitting way to spend your time. And I think that like a lot of the enjoyment that I get out of what we do, and I know Lucy did, and I know you must, is seeing people who have never really had the opportunity to explore the arts creatively- and all the kinds of emotions and sense of self that come with that- is giving them the opportunity, you know, giving them that sort of conduit to explore what very well could be like a completely unknown world.
JJ
Yeah, definitely. I mean, there is kind of a bit of a stigma around art, sometimes, I think, and people think that art, you know, has to be a great Renaissance painting, or, you know, perhaps the only good art is in the big cities, and you know, where all the money is, and stuff like that. But, actually, I think people overlook the value that art has in their daily lives all the time, such as anything we do, that’s, you know, designed on our phone, for example.
Louis
Yeah.
JJ
TV shows, you know, someone’s probably studied media, and, you know, they’ve got an eye for composition and stuff like that. You’ve got a story plot in TV, the books that we read, you know, that’s an art form in itself, creative writing, and stuff. So I think people almost can feel a bit scared to enter into the creative world to think you know, you have to be so, so good at what you’re doing for it to be a great art piece. But actually, there are no rules around art.
Louis
No.
JJ
And you can create your own language without, you know- it’s your space to do whatever you want to do. And I think that’s a really important tool as well, in creating a culture and given people a place to be heard. I don’t really like the time giving people a voice, I think everyone will have their own opinion. And, you know, perhaps don’t know how to express it. But giving people a platform where they can be heard is really important, and a space where people will listen to them. So that’s another good thing that the arts do within communities. And that also develops a sense of culture, I think, in these places. I’ll talk briefly about our Bolsover Lantern Parade-
Louis
Please!
JJ
-which has been going in Bolsover for… I think it’s the 30th anniversary this year.
Louis
Wow. (Chuckles) Congratulations.
JJ
Thank you very much! Yeah, we’re really proud of it and it’s a really big tradition now in Bolsover town. And it’s a brilliant experience for anyone who gets involved, but also we have thousands of people come to watch too, and people make beautiful lanterns using simple, you know, traditional lantern-making methods with willow and tissue paper and little lights. And to see these very simple, kind of, materials transform into something magical and brilliant. You know, just by the hands of people who may not consider themselves artists. It’s just absolutely incredible some of the creations that are made. And this tradition is really embedded within generations of people living in Bolsover. We’ve also had, like, estate agents say that it really helps them to sell the area to new people coming to look around that area as well.
Louis
Okay?
JJ
You know, it’s a very embedded activity that happens in Bolsover and I think, for a lot of people, it’s their kind of welcoming into the winter months, and they look forward to it as an activity that they do for themselves year upon year to develop their skills, create something new, beat, kind of, the lantern they made last year with something a bit better. But also, it brings family and friends together. And that’s really important, the memories that are created within them workshops and within that Lantern Parade is, you know, it stays with people for generations. And we’ve had people bring lanterns that their Dad had made when he was a kid, you know, and they just added something on to it for that year that they attended the parade. And you can just tell it’s a very special thing with them families.
Louis
That’s wonderful. Yeah, I think people kind of, like you said, people kind of take for granted the effect that art has. And I really love hearing stories like this where, sort of, over the years and the way it expands and as time goes by art and certain projects can become- I mean, like you keep saying, I completely agree- there’s this real sense of culture that begins to develop, that kind of like bleeds out from, you know, just this smaller sort of art project or little bit of community art space, and, yeah, I think that like, it’s such a powerful thing. You know, I’m a real big believer in, sort of, the value of the arts and how important it is to explore it and engage with it just on some level, and I think that, with these projects that you’re doing, even if one young person or one family kind of starts exploring sides of themselves, they hadn’t previously through this art, I think it makes it an incredibly valuable and important project.
JJ
Absolutely, yeah.
Louis
So coming up soon- you actually you mentioned it earlier on and I just want to like, see if you want to talk a little bit more about it, is the upcoming Tapton Lock festival. What’s, kind of, your involvement in that and… yeah, just tell me a little bit about more about that, sort of, festival that I know for a fact has actually become quite a tradition in Chesterfield.
JJ
Yeah, it definitely has become a tradition in Chesterfield. So, it’s our 10th anniversary this year, which we’re absolutely thrilled with, we’re planning the festival to be a celebration, a bit more special than normal. But I’ll talk a bit about the festival first. So it was developed in partnership with Derbyshire County council. And the kind of aim of the festival is to bring people together. And to utilise that outside space. And it really is a gem, that Tapton Lock area of Chesterfield, it’s a little bit hidden away. And it just takes you away from that, you know, hustle and bustle of the beautiful town that we’ve got. But it’s a nice escape, I think, and our, kind of, involvement with it was to create that festival so that people can use that space, not only at the festival, but to raise awareness of it so people can return to it. And it’s been an absolutely amazing festival. I think it’s just grown from strength to strength and the acts that we have year upon year just keep getting better and more beautiful. And we get more and more people come down. So we kind of like, we max out that space completely. Now, I don’t think we could get much more on that space, even if we tried, but it’s really beautiful family event. A lot of it is free, so it’s accessible so people could come down with their children. You know, we have a lot of people bring their grandmas and granddads and dogs along, literally anyone can come.
Louis
Lovely.
JJ
And there’s music performances, there’s our activities, there’s outside activities that people can have a go at, like the climbing wall, the kayaking, stuff like that. And then we have a lot of local businesses support us and they have their own store so you can learn about what’s happening in the local area. And then there’s a lot of conservation and wildlife trusts that come along and just can teach people a little bit about the environment and about nature, and the importance of it and how we can look after it. So there’s really something for everyone. I think this year, we’ve got the very special performance from the Chinese community, I think they’re based in Sheffield, and they’re bringing their lion dance to us, which would be amazing.
Louis
Oh, Wow.
JJ
We’ve been working with the BME forum, and they’re going to be bringing in some of their saris. So people can have a go at dressing up in a sari and see the importance of it and how beautiful that is in itself, you know, just as, like, an object. And then of course, we’ve got the Ukrainian dancers returning this year to give a great, spectacular performance and a workshop as well so people can get involved and have a go at that. So there is really something for everyone. There’s refreshments and there’s live music and just, it’s a space just to have a really good time and enjoy the outdoors.
Louis
Yeah, I think I’ll have to attend this year. Last year, when the- I think it would have been the ninth Tapton lock festival, it would have been, it was immediately after I started working at Kakou. So I was still sort of finding my feet a little bit. And I wasn’t- some of the projects that were going on that we were like slightly involved in or that our collaborators were up to, it was all still very new to me, it was still very alien finding my feet in that environment. But I think this year, I might have to come along, because that sounds like an incredible time. I- I wasn’t aware necessarily of like the sheer sort of breadth of culture and, sort of, performers and outreaches that were going to be there, you know, hearing about the Chinese society, and the BME, and the saris, you know, showing. Man, it sounds like a great time, it sounds like something that’s going to be really important in engaging people with all the cultures that exist around them. And yeah, I’m think I want to be there. For sure.
JJ
Yeah, definitely come along, we’d love to have you there. And it really is just a celebration of, of the community. And we’ve got so many different groups within the community, that it’s just a really good place for everyone to just bring their, their culture to life and to experience each other’s culture, you know, in a really safe and happy and welcoming environment. So yeah, come along, it’ll be fantastic.
Louis
So, we’re coming to the end of the time that we have to have our conversation, I’ve had a really great time. But I guess the last thing I kinda want to ask you about is your early days in Junction arts, you know, kind of what were you up to when you first started? You know, were there any kind of like unique challenges there? Like, did you always know you wanted to work in kind of charity and like community art projects? Or was that something that came along a little later in life? Or? Yeah, tell me about those early days of you at Junction Arts, if you don’t mind?
JJ
Yeah, definitely. So I’ve actually grown up with the arts as a strong factor in my life. I’ve always been arty. I’ve always did drawing and crafts when I was younger. And then I studied art at college. And during my time, at college, we had to do professional practice. And I worked with an organisation called Walk the Plank. And that was basically my first time that I saw artists work in the real world. And I just knew then that I wanted to be part of that world. I wasn’t sure how, but I was sure that I wanted to be a part of it.
Louis
(Laughs)
JJ
And I went on to University and did a visual communication degree and specialised in illustration. And during my time there, I did my dissertation on branding. And that was kind of the start of my marketing journey, just understanding brands, the importance of branding, and kind of the impact that branding can have, I really enjoyed that, alongside my art practice as well. And then I went travelling for a little while, and I worked for Amnesty International and I decided, at that point that I really enjoyed the benefits of working for a charity for myself, kind of that, quite, as you know, that good feel, that feel good feeling that you get from it.
Louis
Yeah.
JJ
You’re doing something, you know, everyone has to create an income to live, but I was doing that whilst helping people. And that felt really good. So I kind of decided at that point that I kind of wanted to work in charity, I wasn’t sure how. But I knew that that was the place for me. And after lots of travelling and just kind of lots of trying out different jobs, I stumbled upon surface gallery in Nottingham, which is a volunteer led gallery. And it’s absolutely brilliant. It’s an amazing place for people to go and to volunteer their time, but get professional experience within an art industry. And I guess all of my branding knowledge and my graphic design stuff just tied in really nicely into the role of marketing coordinator. And after being there for a while, I kind of realised that I could do that as a profession. And the job at Junction Arts came up and I just applied for it straightaway. Thankfully, I got it. So that was a really lucky and magical time in my life. That when I did start Junction Arts, we were kind of at a really important changing period for them. They would just kind of finding their feet as a charity. So although they’ve been established as a charity since the 80s, they’d received a lot of funding from the government and support from like local authorities, and that was being cut during that time that I joined. And Junction Arts had applied for Catalyst funding, which was funding to help them to fundraise and to establish themselves more as a charity and to raise income and become more are resilient during these hard times. So I joined at a really exciting time, I think because I was part of that change, part of changing the way that we talked about Junction Arts, we were no longer a Junction Arts organisation, we were at Junction Arts, a community charity, and I really enjoyed the whole process of learning about Junction Arts, changing the way that we spoke about it, we had a new website, which I was heavily involved in. And just kind of like that process of, you know, establishing ourselves again, I think, was really important for how we are as a charity now, so I feel really lucky to have gone through that. And I think it’s, you know, definitely in my bones now to work for a charity, I love that kind of environment. I love that feeling of helping people. And I love that I can tie in all of my skills, knowing that I’m from an arts background, and I’ve got that art skill, I can really understand the benefit of the art. So this is like, the perfect role for me really.
Louis
It sounds like you’re really found a way to kind of, y’know, a perfect marriage between your interest in the arts and this young interest in marketing and yeah, I think what you do is very special. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you, I think it’s given me a real insight- every time I talk to someone on this podcast I think I get a richer and more complex insight into the benefits of community art projects and, you know, I never stop enjoying it, I’ve had a really nice time chatting to you this morning.
JJ
Aw, thank you, Louis, and it’s been a joy to talk to you too. One day I’ll have to pop in to Kakou and see what everyone does there. I know that you do some great stuff there and I’d love to get involved somehow and have a look, see what you do.
Louis
Ah, well, we’d be happy to work with you. So, if there’s anything you’d like to plug, any social media you want to give out to everyone right now, please feel free.
JJ
Yeah, I would love if everyone could pop down to the Tapton Lock festival. Like we said, it’s our ten year anniversary so it’s gonna be a big special one. It’s on the tenth and eleventh of September, so it’s over the Saturday and Sunday weekend. It’s free to attend to it’s gonna be a great and enjoyable weekend that everyone can come along to. And also, watch out for our Bolsover Lantern Parade dates that will be… soon, I think. They’ll start in October, every weekend. And there’s also probably going to be some home kits that people can do from home too, so get along to that if you can and make lanterns- if you can’t make a lantern it’s definitely worthwhile coming to see the parade and to just watch as part of the audience because it’s spectacular. And just keep track of our website, really, we’ve always got our events on there and things coming up and what’s going on.
Louis
Great! Well, everyone, as always, you can follow Kakou everywhere @KakouTechUK. I couldn’t be happier to be back doing this podcast, but as for episode four, that’s all we’ve got. So from myself, Louis, at Kakou Talk, and from JJ from Junction Arts- See ya!
End
